Is Tepid Growth the New Normal in Graduate Enrollment?

0:00:11.1 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Office Hours with EAB. Today we unpack the latest enrollment trends in the graduate and online markets. And while the prospects for growth look promising, our experts warn university leaders to temper their expectations. So give these folks a listen and enjoy.

0:00:33.8 Brian Schueler: Hello and welcome to Office Hours with EAB. My name is Brian Schueler, and I work in EAB research supporting our strategic advisory services partners. I’m also part of our Blueprint for Growth research team. Blueprint for Growth is our signature research on enrollment trends and market dynamics. One of our main areas of focus is helping institutions grow graduate and online enrollment as part of that work. So we examine different growth strategies and tactics that are used across higher ed to isolate those that show the greatest promise that other institutions might wanna consider for themselves. We begin roughly each year looking at the macro environment for higher ed, and specifically, we look at the total graduate enrollments and how that’s changed compared to the last and previous years. Our hope is always that as we get further out from the darkest days of the pandemic, that this picture is going to become clearer and easier to read for us as well as for our partners.

0:01:31.6 BS: Today, we’re gonna unpack a new tranche of research and hopefully put some numbers into context for you all to help and understand the market just a little better and maybe provide some course corrections. In particular, some big new findings that I’m excited to talk about today on our future projections are what we’re thinking about for the future projections of the graduate enrollment market, a shift on who’s winning in the online market post pandemic, as well as a bit of a change in the hot programs that are driving enrollment growth. With me today to discuss some of these new findings is my colleague Todd. Todd, would you mind saying hello and telling the folks a little bit about yourself?

0:02:10.8 Todd Heilman: Sure. Thanks, Brian. Pleasure to be with you here today. I’m really excited to share this research out with everyone. As you said, my name is Todd Heilman. I have the pleasure of serving as principal and senior consultant here at EAB in our adult learner services division. In that role, I work closely with our partners to ensure that they’re prepared with the latest research and that we are well positioning them to ensure that they’re meeting their strategic enrollment objectives. I’ve had the pleasure of serving this role for the past two years, but I’ve been very familiar with EAB and the importance of this market research for the past 20 plus years. I am a former practitioner. I spent 20 plus years on campus serving in various different leadership roles, such as vice president for Student Success and Engagement, vice president for Enrollment Management, Marketing, Student affairs, and one of the gamut of administrative positions. But throughout my career, I’ve always relied heavily on this market data. So again, just thrilled to be diving into this, with you today and to explain what these latest insights means to the market.

0:03:14.4 BS: Yes. So excited to chat about this with you. I know that you and I have really been deep into this data, but I’m wondering if you could give us a moment for those of us who might not be in the enrollment space day-to-day, kind of a short history lesson of what’s been happening in the graduate and online enrollment market ecosystem that’s kind of gotten us to this place today.

0:03:36.8 TH: Sure. Happy to. You know, if we look really, writ large, as we look at the overall landscape for graduate and adult learner market, we really see a shift in prioritization over the past few years. In fact, one of the recent surveys that we conducted and we partnered with NAGAP, we found that a 100% of presidents and a 100% of provosts identified that growing graduate and adult enrollment was a priority for them. Right? That’s a significant shift where historically, the focus was on the undergraduate market, right? If we look at the big picture here, and we look at the overall total tuition revenue in the market today, and I’d like to use this as a baseline, we see that the total gross tuition revenue in higher ed is roughly $203 billion. Of that $203 billion, the adult and the graduate education market make up about 42% or $84 billion, and that sucked from 40% just the year prior. Right?

0:04:36.6 TH: And remember, these are gross tuition dollars that we’re looking at, and we know that traditional undergraduate students are discounted quite heavily. In fact, last year the average discount rate was roughly 56%. So if you start to look at the net tuition revenue and you take into account discounting, graduate and adult education becomes much more, of an even split at most institutions, if we’re looking at it just from net tuition dollars. And as that traditional undergraduate market continues to shrink, more and more emphasis is being placed on that graduate and adult degree completed market to make up the budget shortfalls or those net tuition shortfalls on campus. So in graduate adult enrollment, we typically see growth during times of recession. And as we went through the previous recession and moving into the pandemic, many expected that the education market would react in a very similar fashion as we do during traditional recessionary periods.

0:05:37.9 TH: So, for many reasons that didn’t happen, and we can do another entire podcast in just why the market reacted differently during a recession than during the pandemic. But I think what really strikes me here is that we did see a slight bump like we normally would see during recessionary periods in 2020. It was one year of domestic growth, and that growth didn’t carry forward past 2020. 2021 we did see growth again, but that was the return of the international students into our marketplace. And if we pulled international out, we would’ve been flat or slightly down in 2021 as well. So, we didn’t get that same bump that we normally would see during typical times of recessionary periods. And I know that you’re really close to this newest data, you know, what do you see in the latest data with the 2022 enrollment and what’s projected in 2023 forward?

0:06:33.7 BS: Yeah, a really interesting point. And so interesting also to hear like that we’re, you know, maybe 50% or more of the gross tuition revenue when we think about that discounting is already adult and grad. When we looked at the 2022 data, which is the most recent data we have pretty granular information on from IPEDS, we saw about a 1% decline. So some of that decline that we’ve been seeing post pandemic continuing about a 30, that’s about 30,000 students. But the optimistic take here is that this looks like it might’ve been we’re coming to the end of that decline here. Some of the earlier data we’re getting from the National Student Clearinghouse that looks at 2023 data, suggests that the graduate enrollments nationwide grew by about 0.6% and longer run projections from the National Center of Education Statistics suggest that we’re gonna get back to that longer run, you might say, “normal type of growth around 1.3%. That’s a type of growth rate that lines up pretty well with the mid to late 2010s.

0:07:42.8 BS: And so, hopefully looking forward in these next few years, we’re back to kind of that regular economy, maybe you might call it healthy-ish growth rate. It’s still lower than I think a lot of folks would like, but, certainly better than decline. I would say, though…

0:07:58.1 TH: That’s for sure.

0:08:00.2 BS: Yeah, definitely.

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0:08:01.8 BS: Especially given the increasing importance of this, sector. You know, when I was looking at this data though, I mentioned that the 2022 is our most granular data. The thing that was really surprising to me is that composition of the 2022 data and that downturn. That 1%, downward trend is actually a better stat than it could have been. It was really cushioned. I think you mentioned a little bit that sort of divergence in international and domestic. We actually saw 84,000 additional international graduate students in 2022 versus 2021. And 2021 was already up. We saw a decline of 114,000 domestic grad students. If we were just looking at that domestic market, that’s down by about 4% overall. But of course, the international grad market pulled that back up. And a curious thing for me was that that domestic decline was disproportionately white, non-Hispanic students. They accounted for 75% of the decline, whereas from ’19 to ’20, they only accounted for about 33% of the growth. I’ve got a few hypotheses on like what might be causing that disproportionate element there. I’m not sure that I’ve got any that are really like a fantastic answer. But having been in the market for a long time, Todd, I’d love to get a sense, what do you think is behind some of this disproportionate nature here?

0:09:30.7 TH: Yeah, Brian, I find this really quite fascinating, this short-term change that we’re seeing in the marketplace today. And just first to go back on your data around that 1.3% projected increase moving forward. While yes, and you pointed this out, it’s great to see that a positive predictor. But even at best, 1.3% given the increased competition in the marketplace, for me as a former enrollment manager feels flat at best. But still much better than where we could have been. So there’s still optimism in some of the data that we have here, but given what you just said around these demographic changes, this really will have a significant impact on campuses, not only on their recruitment initiatives, but also with their financial aid optimization models. Like really important to not lose sight of that and what these changes in demographics mean for those financial aid optimization models.

0:10:31.8 TH: So what’s most surprising to me is this decline in white students, and it’s a significant decline. While some decline was to be expected, this disproportionate amount is just striking to me. I think that we are seeing, what we’re seeing play out here is the really the rise of the non-consumption market, right? That’s accounting for about 30% of the market right now. I think it may be hitting the white demographic the hardest, or they’re choosing non-consumption the hardest. These decreases likely indicate the negative media narrative that we’re all fighting against, the value of higher education, student debt, low unemployment rates, are actually working against us here. And while some decline in the white population was expected, previously we were seeing an expecting increases in the Hispanic black and Asian students. And these demographics are shrinking as well. You know, this latest data I’m just seeing, the only one of these demographic profiles that we’ve seen an increase is really around Asian students. And that increases ever so slight. So we’re seeing this decline really across the board, specifically counterintuitive to where just a couple of short years ago, Asian, black and Hispanic students were growing at the highest rate, and we were seeing a smaller decline in white students. So I really just find this fascinating. I know you’ve had a couple of hypotheses yourself. Does this line up with what you were thinking as well?

0:12:08.4 BS: Yeah. So previously, I’ve worked on our non-consumption research, but really focused on that undergraduate decision to go to college kind of set up. But a lot of this does reflect trends that we saw there. And for various reasons, I think we’d have to dive in a little bit deeper to really answer the question of what are those specific ones? But, you know, different political shifts by race and ethnicity group, different regions of the country and job availability, I think all of those are probably playing a role here. At least from our undergraduate research, one thing that we’ve heard more about and seems to be helping combat some of this non-consumption at the undergraduate level is just a lot more engaged and personalized engagement with some of those prospects, engaging with more of them, engaging with them at a more intensive level. It might be a little bit premature to say that that’s the solution here, since we haven’t really dived into that research, but it would feel like the right direction. And those are at least my early hypotheses here.

0:13:19.1 TH: Yeah, I think that’s interesting specifically around the engagement piece. You know, and again, one of our latest survey findings where we surveyed a large number of prospective adult and graduate learners, you know, we’re finding that that nurturing period, the time where it takes them to identify and fit their educational journey back into their lifestyle, though a large portion of the market is taking 18 plus months.

0:13:46.4 BS: Oh, wow.

0:13:46.6 TH: And so, very unlike traditional undergraduate where it’s a linear process, the adult and grad market is just non-linear. And the opportunity to continue your education kind of falls in and out of your lifestyle depending on what’s happening at that time. You know, you may be working full time, you may be raising a family, life can be happening around you and trying to fit going back to school is really becoming an extended decisioning period for that 18 plus months. And then, side interesting fact, once they decide on the institutions that they’re interested in and they’re going to apply to, they’re only applying to an average of two institutions.

0:14:30.6 BS: Wow.

0:14:30.8 TH: So, again, very unlike traditional undergrad where they’re applying to eight to 10, a typical graduate student is only applying to two institutions. So these are just really interesting and significant changes that we’re seeing in the marketplace today. As we continue to dig into this a little bit more, one of the areas of growth historically for graduate enrollment has been the online market. And many thought that the pandemic would be a driver for the shift to online education. Given our latest analysis, how has online education grown and what are you seeing here in the market?

0:15:08.4 BS: Yeah, this was a really surprising part of some of this research. I went into the pandemic thinking, “Wow, like this is just going, like, everyone’s going online. All of those kind of glass ceilings on resistance to going online, we were gonna break all of those. Everyone is gonna jump in, and we were gonna see this like rocket ship go up”. Now, I do wanna note like online enrollment, from 2012 all the way up until before the pandemic had been growing at a pretty healthy rate, seven-ish percent a year. That was where the growth was happening. But when we looked at the data for 2022 in terms of the online enrollment, basically it was exactly where we thought it would be, had nothing happened, had that trend from 2012 to 2019 just continued on its course. So of course, we did see a big change during the pandemic due to emergency online instruction, but no big acceleration so far. Nothing that would suggest that actually that longer term trend happened to change things. I’d be curious, like, what was your take? Did you have a similar thinking of like, “Gosh, the pandemic was gonna really blow open the doors here on online enrollment,” or… And what do you think about this finding? Any takeaways that you would pull out from it?

0:16:32.5 TH: Yeah. I think again, this data is just so interesting. Especially at the start of the pandemic, I was still on campus in my VP of enrollment role, and we were forced to move online. At that time, we were predominantly had 80% of our sections were being taught synchronously in-person. So, like many others, we were forced to immediately transition to online delivery, and it was really tough. With that said, in the moment it really felt as though the pandemic was the driver. However, it’s as noted as if we step back and we look at this trend over the past decade, as you noted in your comments, it became evident that the industry was moving in this direction with online delivery growing by that 7% annual rate and face-to-face declining by about 2% annually.

0:17:29.7 TH: I think being in the moment of the pandemic, we all forgot that we were moving in that direction. It was just the amplifier and the magnifier that we had to do it so quickly and so suddenly, that it all felt so urgent to us. But what really surprising me the most about this is the lack of attention being placed by many in the industry on the hybrid or blended modality. And we’re certainly seeing increases in this trend line here with some of our newer growth, I’m sorry, our newest data. We are seeing growth. However, in that survey that I mentioned earlier that we conducted with presidents, provost and VP of the EMs, through our NAGAP partnership, only 16% of them said that expanding hybrid formats is a priority for them. And I found that really startling. If we look at the data, we’re seeing significant growth in that hybrid modality. And I’m on a campus every week, and what I hear from our campus partners every week is that the hybrid modality is the expected growth area moving forward. And I found that there was a disconnect in that survey with those presidents and provosts that they may not be seeing the market shifting in that direction. Do you have any thoughts there with the data? Yeah.

0:18:50.1 BS: Yeah, yeah. And I guess if we could just… Correct me if I’m wrong, but when we talk about hybrid, we’re talking about students who are maybe taking one class in-person on campus, and then maybe two or three others online or vice versa, but a mixture of the online, not necessarily courses that are part online, part in-person, right? Or are we even thinking about both of those?

0:19:15.2 TH: Yeah, it could really be both, and depending on the institution, some call it blended, some call it hybrid. There’s different terminology that have each institution uses. But what falls into both of those is any section that has some form of in-person component, that could be asynchronous in-person component, it could be a retreat, it’s anything that has what I would phrase in my own methodology, that sense of community that I think today’s students are yearning for once again. They’re not ready to go back, and the large majority of them, to attend an institution full-time in person, but they still want that community, they still want that hybrid component that allows them to have that interaction with faculty and their peers, so I find that really, really interesting.

0:20:14.5 TH: One of the other things that I find really interesting, we look at this entire online marketplace is just how it’s shifting. If we look at our data, back in 2019 the large online giants, the large online national players were controlling about 20% of the graduate online enrollment, so in theory, one in five online students were enrolling at one of these large institutions. In 2020, we started to see a significant change in that space, but there were new players taking up significant market share, and these players are large name brands. We’re seeing institutions like Harvard, USC, Georgia Tech or Purdue Global, just to name a few. And they now have more than dipped their toe into this space of online education, and they are taking on these large online giants from a competitive standpoint. So, as we start to take a look at this and we fast forward, we see that in 2021, the traditional giants lost market share, so they were one in five or 20%, they’re now one in seven or 15% of the market, but these new brands are now quickly making their presence known. So these new online giants as we’re calling them, those large name players are controlling about 8% of the market, and that’s really significant in about one-year to two-year increment that they were able to make that adaptation and make such a significant impact.

0:22:00.4 TH: And to magnify this further, we look at the 2022 enrolment data, the newly established branded players grew by about 25,000 enrollments over the past year, whereas these established online giants only grew by about 8000, so it’s more than triple the growth happening at these large main brand institutions, and it’s really fascinating to me just to see how the market is shifting and how campuses will be adding these new online giants, these name players to their list of competitors in the online space, ’cause you may not have been competing with these large traditional online players, because their brand may not be as well known outside of your primary market. But these newer institution… These newer players, there are no new institutions, I correct myself. These newer players at Harvard, USC, the Georgia Techs, that have this really strong brand recognition, to me will be the significant competition in the online market and moving forward.

0:23:07.1 BS: So a big shift going on, like we mentioned earlier, not actually seeing a huge change in the number of students going online, still growing, but those institutions that are starting to take a big share and become the giants, we’ve actually seen a shift in who’s winning going from, not necessarily that the online giants are now down to tiny enrollments, but that we’re seeing the big institutions we typically think of as your brick and mortar on-campus experience, suddenly really driving hard at this market.

0:23:42.4 TH: Exactly, right. And really upending the traditional online marketplace, so a really interesting shift that we’re seeing here.

0:23:50.8 BS: Yeah. And I can imagine as you’re trying to compete against for graduate students, you probably need to change a little bit of your messaging there, and saying, “Hey, why not… Maybe come to us in-person rather than online, or why come to us online versus someone else?” It’s no longer a us versus University of Phoenix type institution, type of message.

0:24:14.7 TH: That’s right. That’s exactly right. A Caveat, we’ve talked about this before, although many of today’s perspective students are choosing online education, what’s interesting to me and may not be known by most is that even students who apply to an online institution typically attend one that’s within 200 miles of their home, so they’re not typically attending an institution that’s on the other coast, they still find one that’s regionally close to them, and just another interesting factor there that as we look at the marketplace and as enrollment managers and marketers and provost, and program directors are all looking at at their ideal student, they need to take that into account. Now we always like to drive home with our partners to understand your primary and secondary markets first ’cause that’s where even through online education, you’re gonna get the majority of your students.

0:25:14.7 BS: Absolutely.

0:25:15.7 TH: So, as institutions look at their program mix and they make strategic decisions and the best things are new programs to launch or expand, what has the data show us around programs lately? Which programs are growing?

0:25:29.7 BS: Yeah. Well, this is some research we’ve been doing continuously through our Blueprint for Growth research looking at, “Hey, what programs are the hot programs? What programs are maybe not so hot at the moment?” And right now, computer science and analytics are very hot. We saw computer science conferrals grow by 14% per year from 2020-2023, that’s not just overall, but per year every single year. And some of that’s a bit because we saw that international demand where not as many international students in 2020 and then them coming back pretty rapidly, but it’s still very strong across the board, even for domestic students. Analytics is a little bit harder to measure. We see analytics programs get categorized into a bunch of different codes, we use those codes to measure, and they can be kind of all over the place in terms of different codes, but we’re seeing a lot of growth in these areas. One of the bigger ones, management science and quantitative methods, that’s a business zip code, but often encompasses a lot of business analytics. We saw the conferrals double between 2020 and 2023.

0:26:41.5 BS: So overall, when we lump those few, that’s 44,000 additional conferrals over the past three years, just to kind of give some perspective, I would say our darling zip code, our darling program field area for the 2010s was health professions, that saw the most growth over that period up through 2019, added about 91,000 conferrals over 10 years. So as we’re looking at this next decade, the 2020-2030, we’re already halfway there of being like that health professions of the 2010s, that being computer science and analytics. I’m not saying that we know that that’s going to be the trend throughout the rest of this decade, but definitely pay close attention, this is growth that we really have not seen in many other fields over the past few decades happening right now in computer science and analytics, which is pretty exciting. But let’s play a little bit of devil’s advocate here, like we’re hearing computer science, analytics, growing really rapidly, why shouldn’t every single university just double down and open up a computer science, engineering or a math program? From your experience being on campus, what’s wrong with chasing the hot degree?

0:28:01.6 TH: Yeah, this is a great question, and this is where many of enrollment managers and provost fall into this trap. We’re always chasing the hottest degree, so institutions are really moving, and what I call… They’re moving blindly to what I call program proliferation, where they are looking to add these new hot degrees, they’re adding these new programs without doing the necessary feasibility studies in their primary markets to understand the market sustainability of the program. So we lean into this and just as concerning are institutions who continue to add these programs to their portfolio that they perceive have growth opportunities, but they’re not sun-setting programs that are under-performing at the same rate. So therefore, the net results are really overall increased delivery costs that are ultimately impacting the net tuition revenue negatively. So, it’s program proliferation without the sun-setting happening with it. And I think that’s a big piece that many campuses are challenged with, ’cause it’s much easier to add a program, than it is to sunset of program.

0:29:15.0 TH: And then, additionally, many of the computer science and engineering programs are being driven currently by the international market. And that market, as we know is changing quite rapidly. We can do an entire episode just discussing the recent changes in the international space and perhaps how it may or may not be changed or impacted by the oncoming presidential election. One way or the other, the international market will be impacted by the upcoming presidential collection. I could guarantee you that. We are also seeing countries that are having a very concerted effort to keep their students in-country instead of sending them out, so there’s concerted efforts to do that. There are newly emerging markets happening internationally, as China is trying to keep their students in-country, there is now an emergence of students from South America and Africa, different recruiting tactics, so it really, again, requires… And what matters is to really understand how to recruit those students.

0:30:18.6 TH: And lastly, I’ll add, it’s important for institutions to fully understand their marketplace and to do the necessary due diligence within that marketplace. So, many institutions look at one-dimensional data. And one-dimensional data, let’s just say conferrals, they look at conferrals and they wanna develop a program based on conferrals alone and conferrals are truly an important measure, but if we look at it overall, it’s a lacking indicator because these are enrollments that happen several years prior that are now being conferred with their degree, so it is an important measure, but it’s lacking. It’s also important for institutions to understand what’s happening in their market from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. What is the employment employer market telling you on what’s required in your market, are you factoring that in? And then lastly, are you looking at your competitor set and current enrollments as well to see the current demand and to ensure that your programs are in alignment with the employer demand that you’re meeting that skill set?

0:31:30.8 TH: So, there are many different factors here that all need to be taken into consideration to develop the appropriate plan on how to address this. But I think what we’re seeing here, Brian, is really a market that is somewhat influx and where we may have been able to make these short-term decisions based on singular data sources, we are now having to look at multifaceted data to ensure that we are launching programs in the most efficient manner that are sustainable given the market demand.

0:32:03.7 BS: So, seeing this hot market data and saying, hey, that’s a great idea, that’s giving me some good ideas, but before we just go and say, Let’s put this out in the market, really being careful about do we have the resources available to really market this? Is our competitive situation good? Do we think that there’s sustainable demand for this doing the homework, which of course we’re able to help our partners through that process as well.

0:32:34.5 TH: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, Brian, I know you recently wrote a blog post that summarized some of these same findings, what surprised you at the end most, if anything about the numbers?

0:32:46.5 BS: Yeah, we touched on a fair number of these ones that I mentioned in my previous post, but one that sticks out the most is who’s winning in those national markets, just seeing how much we’ve seen the shift to go from the online giants being the big winners, to now the established institutions that are playing in these areas. John Hopkins, Purdue, University of Illinois, University of Florida, these are football team institutions that are now winning it on the gridiron of the online market, so I think a space to continue watching, one that I’m going to continue to be very interested in as we get new data over this next year. I know that we’re coming up on about our 30-minute mark. We’ve only scratched the surface, there’s so many things that we could talk about in graduate and online enrollments. But before we go, I’d be curious, would you be willing to share just a few key takeaways in terms of what institutional leaders listening to us today might be thinking about or should be responding given some of this data and insights that we’ve uncovered?

0:33:55.7 TH: Yeah, absolutely. And you’re right, we only scratched the surface here and obviously, we enjoy talking about this, and could continue on and on. But yes, let me summarize, just a few key areas that I think are important. At first, while it appears that there is a slight uptick, that 1.3% that you identified earlier in 2023, as I noted earlier, even if that 1.3% is on target and we hit it, and we moved through 2032 with that projection as it’s currently anticipated, to me that essentially still is a flat market. So, I think that’s the first piece, is to operate as though that we are in a flat market with increased competition. So, during this time, we’re gonna continue to see the non-consumption market grow. We’re gonna have to overcome that media narrative, so as institutions are trying to develop their marketing and their nurturing strategy, they really need to keep in the forefront of their mind, today’s cost consciousness of the perspective student and really ensure that they’re driving home affordability, ROI outcomes with their messaging.

0:35:07.8 TH: My second takeaway is around that increased competition, as you’ve mentioned in the marketplace, I think this is truly going to be impactful across the board. And as we mentioned, the first biggest competitor may in fact be that non-consumption, but then secondly, with that limited projected growth, this cause is increased competition in the marketplace, so each institution will have new competitors in their primary and secondary markets that they have not had to compete with previously, and that again, you need to adjust your brand messaging to again, speak to those new competitors that you may be up against in recruiting students that weren’t there previously. And then, lastly as some more prestigious institutions continue to struggle in these competitive markets, they will get more aggressive and competing for students with institutions that they previously didn’t have to compete with. So again, those larger name competitors are now dipping down a little bit into your market share that they did not have to do previously ’cause the market has shrunk a bit.

0:36:10.5 TH: And then lastly, I think my last one here is these large demographic shifts will be something that we all have to watch, and again, it’s gonna be interesting to see if this is an anomaly or not, are these downturns permanent, how are these demographic changes going to affect that financial aid modeling, that financial optimization is really going to be impacted the most, and I think many people are not keeping that at the forefront, but those financial aid optimization models are built on specific demographic data and average incomes associated with those demographics. So, as I think about it, those would probably be the top three for me. Anything stand out to you? Anything for you to add on to that list?

0:36:58.7 BS: I think that we’ve basically covered all of the points that popped out to me, and so I think we’re at a point where it’s like lots of stuff to think about, lots of stuff to go away with, and hopefully for our listeners today, you found this insightful and helpful as you’re thinking about the ever-changing online and grad market. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Office Hours with EAB. Make sure to tune in for our next episode coming up soon.

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