New Survey Reveals What Today’s Adult Learners Really Want

0:00:10.2 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Office Hours with EAB. Today, we review the data from a new survey that examines the mindset and preferences of today’s adult learners. You’ll also hear from experts who explain how to use this information to boost enrollment by adjusting how you engage and nurture prospective adult learners. So give these folks a listen and enjoy.

0:00:38.1 Val Fox: Hello and welcome to Office Hours with EAB. My name is Val Fox. I’m a consultant and principal in EAB’s Adult Learner Recruitment Division, helping universities grow enrollment in graduate, online, and adult degree completion programs. And as part of that work, every year we survey current and prospective graduate and adult degree completion students to understand their mindset and preferences for continuing their education. And today we’re going to unpack some of the newest data from our recent research.

0:01:12.7 VF: We surveyed over 6,000 students, and so we’re going to delve into the mindset and preferences they have so we can better engage them and nurture them, right? I mean, that’s the goal, is understanding their needs so we can address those throughout the process. And I’m here today with my esteemed colleague, Todd Heilman. Todd, would you mind saying hello and introducing yourself?

0:01:36.2 Todd Heilman: Thanks, Val. Hey, everyone. As Val said, my name is Todd Heilman. It’s a pleasure to be here with you today. I have the pleasure of serving as senior consultant and principal here at EAB in our Adult Learner Services Division. Really fancy title. All that really means is I work closely with our partners to ensure that they are prepared with the latest research and are well-positioned to meet their strategic enrollment objectives. I’ve had the pleasure of working with the firm for about two years now, but come from the campus side. I’m a former practitioner serving in roles such as VP of Student Success, VP of Enrollment, Student Affairs, Marketing. I’ve kind of run the gamut of administrative positions all in the New York City region, which is where I am based out of.

0:02:20.1 TH: Really excited to dive in with you all today to learn a little bit more about these findings. When I was on campus, I always found these extremely useful and ensuring that we’re understanding what’s happening in the marketplace today and really getting a sense of what are the preferences for today’s adult learner, and those adult learners could be grad degree completers or they could be graduate students. But Val, tell me a little bit about what are you thinking? From a very high level, you’re a former marketer. What are your thoughts on this data and how you utilize this data in your day-to-day?

0:03:01.3 VF: Sure. I learned in higher ed that the word consumer is not always looked upon favorably, but I used to use that word, much to the chagrin of some of my colleagues in the academy. But I think what we’re hearing is that adult learners are behaving more and more like consumers, and for a lot of good reason. They are being shaped every day. Their preferences and mindsets are being shaped by all these brands. Could be publishers, retailers, all of it around us. And so I find that, and I would really encourage, if we couldn’t source this kind of data ourselves with our own perspective and current students, I would always rely on information like this as a former higher ed CMO. So I love that we do this. I love that we make it readily available.

0:03:55.5 VF: And for folks who are listening and thinking, I want to get my hands on charts and data, all of that’s also available on our website. I think I would love to start this conversation, Todd, maybe you come from an enrollment as well as marketing, and you’re like the multi-hyphenate in higher ed. I love when you describe your role. You’ve done everything, but having worked for so long in the enrollment space, and for listeners who might not be in that space day-to-day, give us a high-level overview of the importance of this data and how it frames enrollment strategies.

0:04:35.8 TH: Yeah, I think that’s great to set the baseline for as we go through this data here today, so I appreciate that question. I think just from a very high level, I continue to be impressed with just the volume of participation in these surveys. Last year was our prior record-setting number of participants in this survey, and that was about 3,800. This year, as you noted at the beginning of the call, we have more than 6,000, so just from a volume perspective, it really gives us a sense of what’s happening in the marketplace. And as I continue to answer your question, I’m just going to go through this participant profile a little bit more, because I think that shapes a lot of this discussion and some of the results that we’re seeing with this latest adult learner mindset survey. So one of the things that jumps out to me as we start to take a look at the participant profile, and I look at the employment status, roughly 51% of the participants were employed full-time, but that left us with a really high part-time rate at 21% and a very high unemployment rate at 28%. I think that’s factoring into some of the results that we’ll see here. If we also take one level further down, 17% were what we call adult degree completers, so they have some form of college education, but they have not completed their credential.

0:06:02.5 TH: And roughly 82%, 83% were pursuing either a master’s or doctorate degree. So we have a good representation there. And just to ensure that we’re also capturing the international market, we also have a good participation from international, that was 32% international. So we’re getting a really broad sense on the mindset of today’s adult learner. And I think as we start to take a look at these survey findings, as a former enrollment manager to go full circle here, that’s the kind of insight that you really need to pivot to what’s happening from today’s perspective and current graduate students. And I’m really going to be anxious to get your thoughts as we drill through some of these themes. And there are three real common themes that we can kind of bucket these findings into. Those are, first, that independent research is really remaining central to the entire search process. So we’ll dive into that a little bit more.

0:07:07.4 TH: Secondly, application choices are really fueled by pragmatism. And I would say extended pragmatism along with stealth shopping. And we’ll touch on that a little bit as well, even dare to call it mega stealth shopping. And then third, we’ll kind of land on the most common theme that’s occurring, and we’ll hear it over and over again, is really cost consciousness in the marketplace today. And how that cost consciousness is really driving the entire discussion. And the adult degree completers and the adult learners on how they’re fitting their educational journey back into their lives. So that’s a lot. And I know, you’ve already pointed out, as a former CMO, this data was very valuable to you as well. Any additional insight just around those three buckets, or we can dive right in as well.

0:08:05.2 VF: Yeah, I’m going to be listening to this with a lens on what I would be doing if I was back on campus as a CMO or leading enrollment marketing efforts trying to find these students. So I’m sure I will be peppering comments throughout. The first theme that you mentioned, independent research, we’ve done a lot of work around the stealth shopping. Are those things related? Walk us through the findings here.

0:08:33.4 TH: Yeah, certainly related. And one of the things that we can go on and on about is just the entire market for, again, graduate and adult learners. Right now, they are 80% stealth, whereas just a decade ago, they were 20%. So that’s really hard to understand the engagement of that population and to do accurate forecasting on your enrollment and your funnel activity.

0:09:00.6 VF: And Todd, just for folks who maybe don’t use this vernacular every day, by stealth, we mean applications… When we get an application from a student that we’ve never heard from before, right, they haven’t raised their hand and reached out to us in any capacity prior to that. So you’re saying 80% of those applications today come in from somebody who that’s the first time we’re hearing from them. They’re a “stealth” applicant.

0:09:29.5 TH: Exactly right. So they have not raised their hand through the marketing journey that you may or an institution may have for them. They are choosing to be stealth and doing this pragmatic research all on their own. And that’s probably… Go ahead.

0:09:45.7 VF: Yeah, I was going to say, is that fair to say, you know, is that a ding for marketers who aren’t maybe successfully converting those folks or is this just the nature, right? Maybe those prospects haven’t raised their hand. I would like to think, I mean, in my experience, understanding this audience the way we do, this is just the way that consumers and adults behave today with brands, whether it’s an education brand, whether it’s a retail brand, a publishing brand, they’re not necessarily reaching out, picking up the phone and calling, you know, admissions counselors or any organization the way they were 10, 20 years ago. So this is in no way, maybe I’m just feeling for my marketing colleagues out there. This is in no way a denigration of the work everyone’s doing, right? The hard work we’re all doing out there to generate inquiries and leads, is that fair?

0:10:48.5 TH: Yeah. I think that’s spot on. I think what this does magnify though, is the need to understand consumer intent and speak to that intent directly. And, you know, we’re kind of moving from a marketing perspective to understand intent and then serve up customized intent based on, you know, that prospective student’s, you know, motivations for continuing that educational journey. And I think, you know, that’s probably a great segue to just talk a little bit about, you know, that first bucket, that first theme on how independent research remains central to the search process. You know, as part of this survey, we asked these prospective and current students, how long have you been actively searching for information about furthering your education? And I think this timeline is really surprising to most. 41% of the respondents searched for information for less than six months.

0:11:42.9 TH: Those were primarily adult degree completers who are a little bit more nimble and rolling at a faster pace. But if we look at, you know, there are another 40% that searched for information about going back to school for greater than a year, with a quarter of them being more than 18 months. And if we blew out the entire data set, we would see that was going out to as much as three years. So again, we’ve got this highly pragmatic adult learner doing this extensive research on their own, trying to figure out, you know, first of all, what is my program of interest? What are the fewest barriers to entry? What institutions might I be interested in? How am I balancing my family life, my professional life? I may be working full time. And it’s taking this extended period of time to really figure out, one, can I go back? And where will I go back? And how do I fit it into my lifestyle? And, you know, for all of my years on campus, and I’d be interested to hearing this from you as well, I have not ever worked with a traditional drip campaign that went out maybe 12 months, and definitely not 18, 22, 24, or even 36 months, which is what’s necessary now to keep these adult learners engaged through this extended timeline.

0:13:10.0 VF: Absolutely. It’s rare. I know we weren’t building campaigns that worked. I mean, it was enough to just stand up a single, you know, six month campaign. And usually, as we work with… We talk to schools and the mindset is always next application cycle, right? If they haven’t applied by the next application cycle, they’re not interested and those inquiries and leads are moved to, you know, an inactive file, which is really unfortunate because the data here really bears out that I read, this is not that higher ed isn’t important, but that life is more important. There are prospective students with families and careers and other things they’re juggling and they can’t prioritize a search the way that an undergraduate student would, right? Where it’s really their time. They’ve got time carved out to do just that while in high school. But for working adults juggling so many different responsibilities, they’ve got to make this fit around in the margins, if you will.

0:14:24.6 VF: So does that put more of an onus on… You know, to me, it puts more of an onus on schools to create urgency and to break through the noise and clutter and really reflect that back if they notice that an inquiry has been inactive for a while. There’s a way to address that, right? As a marketer, I would reach out and nudge them with a, we know you’re busy. Here’s how our program can fit into your busy lifestyle.

0:14:55.8 TH: Right. Again, understanding that intent, right? So it all goes back to that intent. And then how can you obtain information from this prospective student to understand that intent and then serve them up something customized back to keep them engaged and nurturing along through that extended timeline. As we continue to move through this, what’s also critically important as we think about this highly pragmatic adult learner is thinking about how are you optimizing your SEO strategies, right? Realizing that today’s adult learners are going and they’re doing web searches, right? So they’re looking for best MBA near me as an example, or they’re not going to an institutional website first. They’re going to do a Google search and that’s where your SEO strategy is so critically important. That was number one in student responses. Second to that by less than 20%… I should say more than 20 percentage points is the specific EDU sites. So again, they’re doing these general SEO searches first, and then they’re going to school websites and then ultimately to the program pages.

0:16:07.5 TH: So critically important how we think about today’s adult learner and how they’re pragmatically doing this research. And then when they get to those program pages, what’s most important to them is what’s most important to any prospective student, right? What are the admissions requirements or the barriers to entry? And then right away, you know, price sensitivity, what’s the cost to attend? What are the financial aid scholarships that are available to me? And then they think about what’s the format. Is it synchronous? Is it asynchronous? Online? In person? Yeah, the program length. And then ultimately what is the ROI? So every program page, and our survey findings really solidify this, they have to speak to three key things, right? That’s the cost to attend, the time, the duration of the program, and then the ROI or that social proof that comes out of it. So all critically important.

0:17:02.8 TH: Again, just because I’m so amazed by your background now, anything else that you would like to kind of emphasize around that SEO and the need to have an optimized SEO strategy to nurture these students along?

0:17:16.3 VF: Well, you know me, Todd, I could spend… We could have a whole other webinar just on this topic. I’m very passionate about this. I think we went through many, I would say, I think it was about three website redesigns. Most of them had an eye to improving SEO. We learned each time, but I think the bar here has been set high by our prospective students. We need to make sure that our program pages are a one-stop shop. They’re like we said earlier, they’re independent. They’re going to use your program pages as a single point of truth. So if you… I mean, I like to kind of stress test some of the admission requirements at times with university leaders where, you know, I’ll see really very, very exhaustive admission requirements and I’ll say, are you actually reading all of the letters of recommendation, essays, et cetera, et cetera, that you’re requiring.

0:18:20.7 VF: And I get mixed results and I I’ll challenge them to say, take things off that you’re not actually using because those in fact are seen often as roadblocks for student. I think you use that word, right? So it’s, you know, making sure your program pages serve as one-stop shops, making sure that your admission requirements are clear and as streamlined as possible because these are busy adults that will… We’ve also run other surveys that show that and so I’m glad to see this one lines up, but they’ll make a decision not to apply if they feel like the requirements are too high and too cumbersome, especially if your requirements look radically different, meaning harder than competitive schools, you know, near you.

0:19:15.8 VF: So I think that’s really important for leaders to keep in mind. I also wanted to point out one thing, and I think this bore out in this research as well is that students are really unforgiving when it comes to websites, right? Tell us a little bit more about the stats there. Like students will leave, for example, what percent of students, it’s a high number, I know, will leave if they don’t find what they’re looking for, or if they feel like it’s a bad experience?

0:19:45.4 TH: Yeah, such a great point. So one of the things that we found through the survey finding is that 94% make it a point of visiting all the websites of the schools that they’re considering. I’m really surprised that that’s not 100 but 94% still statistically significant, it should be 100, are visiting, you know, the EDU sites of all the schools that they’re considering. 90% of them said that a user-friendly website improves their opinion on the school. So again, critically important to have that. 88% said that a school’s website helps them decide whether the school is a right fit for them. And that’s up from 77% just last year. So again, they’re looking at your EDU site, they’re looking at your program pages, they’re trying to envision themselves, you know, at that institution. And then conversely, 84% said a poorly-functioned website negatively affects their impact with the school.

0:20:37.1 TH: So critically important to have your EDU site, you know, that is the front door to your institution.

0:20:43.7 VF: Yeah. It’s like a litmus test, you know?

0:20:46.2 TH: Exactly.

0:20:49.7 VF: And they walk away with very strong opinions very quickly, either favorably or unfavorably. Well, I’m glad we spent time on that. As far as some of the other, you said there are three big findings. I know we’ve just touched on the first one. The second one you shared has to do with pragmatism. Explain a little bit more about that to us. And if there’s anything there that surprises you based on prior research?

0:21:19.3 TH: Yeah. So, you know, the second theme we’re labeling application choices are being fueled by pragmatism. What’s critically important, again, wanting to understand the intent of a prospective student, we asked as part of the survey, what were your primary reasons for furthering your education? No surprise, but affirming here, the number one response was to advance my career. But there are others here that I think are critically important to understand. And again, once you understand these intents, you’re able to speak to them through your marketing messaging. Underneath advance my career, we also had make a difference in the world or pursue my passions or pursue my interest in more depth or increase my earning potential, right? So I want to advance my career and I want to increase my earning potential, which between the two of those, you know, that’s the large majority of the responses that we’ve received here.

0:22:14.8 TH: But I think it’s critically important to understand that and then ensure that you are speaking to that over and over again. Because what we’re finding as we think about this extended pragmatism that’s happening, this extended timeline of 18 plus months that students have to be nurtured to fit their educational journey back into their life, compound that with the 80% stealth market. And then the nonlinear process at the graduate level in comparison to a very linear process for traditional undergrad. So think about the adult learners that are going through that process in comparison to a traditional undergraduate student who then, you know, when they decide they’re going to apply, they’re applying to eight to 10 institutions. So a traditional adult learner is applying to much fewer institutions, right? A graduate student is applying to, let’s call it four programs, so four schools and a degree completer is only applying to three. So at this point, once you get them to apply to your institution, you have a very solid chance of landing them. I like to say that really yours to lose.

0:23:30.5 TH: So very unlike that traditional undergraduate market, you have very few, let’s call them application crossover or application competitors. So again, that’s where your marketing and your differentiator really come into play here. Taking it one step further, as we think about these pragmatic students is what we’re calling that cross between what is my preference versus my reality. So I’ve already applied to an institution. Now I want to, you know, I’m trying to decide if my preference for modality is in person, if it’s synchronous or if it’s asynchronous. And then what is my reality? Is that my reality in real life? And, you know, most including myself, I always have a preference to be in person because that is my preferred learning modality. But my reality is that based on my family commitments and my work commitments in person doesn’t work out for me. So then online or a hybrid modality works out for me.

0:24:38.1 TH: And we found that is exactly the challenge that today’s graduate adult learners are facing, right? Their modality preference primarily was either all in person or majority of in-person courses, whereas their reality was that it was the majority of online or hybrid, right? So they’re not able to come and be full time in person, although that may be their preference. And then if we take that one step further, and again, I’m just digging into this pragmatic adult learner that also went for synchronous versus asynchronous programs, right? Their preference was to have synchronous or a mixture of both synchronous and asynchronous. But based on their life and the competing challenges in their life, their reality was that 50% of them were enrolled in asynchronous coursework because that’s what fit into their life.

0:25:40.3 TH: So we’ve got this competing, you know, my preference is this, but my reality is this. And institutions need to meet those students somewhere in the middle to understand and connect preference versus reality and ensure that they’re delivering on those modalities. I’m sorry, I’m just…

0:26:00.4 VF: Yeah, I hear that and I think… You know, and at the same time, we said, what are the key drivers and motivators and what they’re looking for? We didn’t hear modality come up in what students are looking for when they’re searching online. They’re looking for things like, you know, scholarship and, you know, tuition costs, financial aid, ROI. But to me, when I bucket this need for flexibility, almost, you know, I want all my options. I think online, but I’ll actually go, you know, I think I’m going to go in person, but the reality is I’m going to go, you know, I went online. And then this long time spending, you know, months or years researching. To me, that speaks to like a very high risk aversion, right? Like I want as much flexibility when it comes to modality, and I’m going to take a long time researching all my options. Yes?

0:27:04.7 TH: That’s exactly right. Because it’s such a big change in their everyday lives, right? So again, they’re fitting this into what is an already very busy lifestyle that they’re likely already in the midst of. And then how do I layer this in on top of it? And if I layer it in, what is my expected outcome? What is my ROI? And how quickly can I get to that ROI?

0:27:33.4 VF: Hearing that as a marketer, I would be leveraging as many stories of current students and recent alum as possible that to let them do the telling of the story on our behalf. Meaning, hey, this program fit my lifestyle. It had the flexibility I needed. I was able to successfully pivot or grow my career. But I would certainly be leaning on those kinds of stories just to address what is, you know, underlying a lot of this, I think, is this idea of this is a significant, significant investment of monetary and time resources. And so how do you convey that it is going to be worth it and alleviate that risk, mitigate that risk for prospects? I think the storytelling is a big piece of it. Okay. Well, does that wrap up the pragmatism or was there more there that we wanted to touch on?

0:28:43.8 TH: I think there’s certainly more to touch on. For folks listening to this, please request the white paper, go to our eab.com and get a copy of this white paper because we’re just scratching the surface here. But I think we should probably move on to our third theme, which is all around cost consciousness and how that cost consciousness is driving enrollment decisions. And one of the things that I want to point out here, as part of this survey, we asked in terms of your enrollment decision indicate the importance of the following factors with one being not important at all and five being extremely important. At the top of this list was program accreditation. And I’m really so glad to see that there. In our last survey, it wasn’t there. It had slipped behind some price sensitivity. It was behind financial aid and scholarships and cost of attending. So really good to see that program accreditation is back at the top, but right there in the number two and the number three are all around that cost and that price sensitivity. It’s financial aid and scholarships and cost of attending. And then the other bucket that we see here, and this goes right in alignment with what we’ve been seeing all along, is around ROI, it’s around time to completion career assistance.

0:30:10.2 TH: And for the most part that’s been popping last year and now this year in this survey is also online support services. So as more and more students are enrolling in online education, they want to know, it’s a Sunday evening, I’m logging into my asynchronous course and I have a problem. Who’s there to support me and how are you supporting me? And I think that’s where many institutions are now trying to struggle with is how do they meet that service need in off hours for today’s online asynchronous learner. And that will be a challenge. And that’s popping more and more in our survey as being critically important to today adult learners and prospective adult learners as well.

0:30:58.8 VF: So it’s not enough to just stand up online programs. It’s really what are all the supports around it for these?

0:31:05.2 TH: Exactly.

0:31:06.1 VF: Especially as adult learners, I think, Todd, what we’re getting at here is that adult learners very likely didn’t go to undergrad in this format, right?

0:31:14.9 TH: Right.

0:31:16.0 VF: Or if they’re adult degree completers, when they got started, it wasn’t in this format. So they are going to need the extra support there. It’s very logical. Who wouldn’t need that kind of help? So I’m glad to see. I hope this means that schools are going to take us up on that and start thinking really critically because I would believe that that’s going to grow with retention. It’s going to have all sorts of positive impact for the student and for the institution.

0:31:49.2 TH: Absolutely. I think, as we’re continuing to just move through this price sensitivity and we move to wrap up, a couple of things I want to point out that I think are critically important is, you know, as we start to talk about this price sensitivity and we asked students, you know, what sources of financial support will you have for continuing your education? Scholarship is becoming more and more expected at the graduate level. Just like it is on traditional undergrad. 58% of the respondents said that they expected scholarship at the graduate level. And that’s up significantly. In fact, if we look back over several years, in 2018, that was at 40%. We’re now approaching 60%.

0:32:35.2 TH: Additionally, we’re seeing less propensity to use personal household income to fund their education. Back in 2018, 58% of the respondents were willing to use their personal household income. That’s now down to 41%. So again, extreme price sensitivity. And then if we take that one step further and we, you know, we asked what was the most you were willing to spend per three credit course for your education, including loans and your personal financial resources? 40% said $1,500 or less.

0:33:11.3 TH: So as we start to think about our cost per credit or cost per three credit course, $1,500 was the propensity for the respondents to this survey. And that may be a good gauge as institutions start to look at their pricing structure, just to see what the price sensitivity is in the marketplace. I’ll just land on the last point here. Just again, magnifying price sensitivity. When we asked what is your primary reasons for not pursuing your education at this time, the number one reply by far and away was high cost. And then it was all those other commitments, professional work related commitments, family responsibilities, or unsure what areas of study. And then the follow up question to that was, what if anything, would change your plans about continuing your education in the future. And the number one response again by far and away was a more affordable tuition. So we just saw price sensitivity over and over and over again as we went through each of these themes. So I think from a very high level… Go ahead, Val.

0:34:19.0 VF: Sorry. I was gonna say, Todd. Yeah, at a high level this puts a lot on the leadership plate to think about as we’re going into maybe setting pricing strategy for FY26 scholarship in tuition, support for students, additional online support, more flexible options, modality wise. How would you prioritize those? Are they all a priority or would some take precedent?

0:34:53.0 TH: Yeah, I think they’re actually all a priority now. I think, you know, one of the things, and again, we can have a whole separate conversation about this that we have with our… A lot of partners say, well, should I consider a tuition reset instead of a scholarship? And the answer to that is, from my perspective, is for the large part, mostly no, you should not do that. You should stay with scholarship because scholarship feels earned. There are marketing capabilities behind that. So I think yes, you’re spot on. But you know, as we start to look at what the key takeaways revolving around those three main themes here are, is that today’s graduate students, as we know, are often spending more than a year researching programs. So we typically… We need to ensure that we are nurturing them for a year, 18 months, two years plus they have to be in your marketing campaigns. When students are ready to apply, they approach their application decisions with an eye towards their modalities and their schedules and thinking about their preferences versus their realities. And we need to speak to that again during that nurturing campaign.

0:36:00.9 TH: We also need to understand that graduate adult students consistently identify cost and available scholarship and financial aid among the most important factors in deciding where they want to enroll. There also has to be a sound financial aid strategy. Again, many institutions are not offering scholarship at the graduate level. Today’s pragmatic student is going to your program page and they’re trying to identify what those barriers to entry are and if scholarship is available. So critically important to ensure that that information is on your program pages. But independent research is at the heart of the adult learner search process. Application choices are fueled by pragmatism and cost consciousness is driving enrollment decisions. So that’s a lot to pack in to this 30, 35 minutes that you and I have been discussing this. And again, we are just scratching the surface on that.

0:36:55.0 VF: Thanks so much. I think you did a fabulous job summarizing this at the end. That’s like the sound bite for the day and the session together. There’s more content on our site, of course, white papers and webinars, and all of it around this very topic, meeting the needs of today’s adult learner. It’s under that kind of a banner. But thanks so much, Todd. You really gave this like a really thoughtful kind of presentation and pulling out the key highlights for leaders to take back to campus as they start thinking about planning for the next fiscal year’s budget and all of the things that go into supporting today’s adult learner, especially based on what they’ve told us they need and are evaluating schools on. Thanks so much. Look forward to potentially connecting with you on a future episode. Any last thoughts, last takeaways?

0:37:53.8 TH: I think no. Again, we’re just scratching the surface about this. As I’m sure everyone will be able to tell if you listen to this, is the enthusiasm that you and I have around this, how much we can we… We’d love to dive in and talk about this. So, I’d encourage anyone to reach out to us. You know, let’s continue the conversation. And again, we’re just scratching the surface on what these survey findings truly are and anxious to share them all with you. Thanks, Val. This was a lot of fun.

0:38:23.5 VF: Thanks, Todd.